This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fictional characters, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of fictional characters on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Fictional charactersWikipedia:WikiProject Fictional charactersTemplate:WikiProject Fictional charactersfictional character articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Television, a collaborative effort to develop and improve Wikipedia articles about television programs. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can join the discussion.
To improve this article, please refer to the style guidelines for the type of work.TelevisionWikipedia:WikiProject TelevisionTemplate:WikiProject Televisiontelevision articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anime and manga, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of anime, manga, and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Anime and mangaWikipedia:WikiProject Anime and mangaTemplate:WikiProject Anime and mangaanime and manga articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Animation, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to animation on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, help out with the open tasks, or contribute to the discussion.AnimationWikipedia:WikiProject AnimationTemplate:WikiProject AnimationAnimation articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList articles
This article is part of WikiProject Gender studies. This WikiProject aims to improve the quality of articles dealing with gender studies and to remove systematic gender bias from Wikipedia. If you would like to participate in the project, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the project page for more information.Gender studiesWikipedia:WikiProject Gender studiesTemplate:WikiProject Gender studiesGender studies articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sexology and sexualityWikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexualityTemplate:WikiProject Sexology and sexualitySexology and sexuality articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology articles
This article was created or improved during Wiki Loves Pride, 2021 and 2022.Wiki Loves PrideWikipedia:Wiki Loves PrideTemplate:Wiki Loves Pride talkWiki Loves Pride articles
Before making any global changes, I want to first ask a question here. While Rose of Versailles clearly has queer and vaguely queer characters, what do you think of Oscar specifically? She is listed twice as genderqueer and bisexual, but as usual the sources either don't mention this directly, simply theorize over the content (Moreover, sources directly describe her as a woman who is fighting for the opportunity to occupy “male” jobs, placing an emphasis on women's emancipation rather than queer gender), or are based on somewhat dubious conclusions or claims. For example, the very first statement justifies Oscar's bisexuality by saying that she is supposedly a love interest for Maria, but this firstly does not mean that Oscar returns her feelings, and secondly, both girls have male love interests as the love of their lives. Moreover, in the manga itself, Oscar rejects suspicions of lesbianism and once even says that she would like to be a man in order to respond to Rosalia's feelings (while Rosalia directly accepts love for Oscar as love for another woman). Overall, what do you think and should Oscar be removed from the list? The rest of the characters seem to fit. Solaire the knight (talk) 16:33, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. I think Oscar is a tricky one. I don't think the sources are consistent on Oscar's identity. After Ellen has Erica Friedman describes Oscar as "a woman also brought up as a boy, but...is open about being female" while the meh CBR article calls Oscar "one of the first openly queer characters in animation", Rachel Thorn calls Oscar "a woman who was raised to behave and dress as a man...[who] draws the romantic interest both of a man...and Marie Antoinette" and ANN quotes Susan Napier as describing Oscar as one of the "feisty cross dressing heroines." Due to this ambiguity and what you are pointing out, I think we can list her as queer but nothing else. In any case, there may be enough ambiguity here to move use those sources, and others, to create a possible section for Rose of Versailles on the LGBTQ themes in anime and manga page. Historyday01 (talk) 13:22, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My main complaint is that most of this information is either speculation and reading things that were never stated explicitly enough or simply ignores the fact that Oscar's identity and lifestyle seems largely unconventional (for the time) due to the fact that As Erica correctly emphasized, Oscar is a woman who was raised and lives like a man (for example, very often the emphasis is on the fact that she drives girls crazy because of the appearance of a feminine, handsome "ikemen onna" man). I am not against the idea of a section, since it is an important stage in raising the topic of gender representation (Also, let's not forget the huge influence on Takarazuka and related topics.), androgyny and heteronormativity (the famous dialogue “if I were a man”), but her queer assessment seems too confusing. The author herself, as far as I remember, was more receptive to the ideas works in terms of gender rather than sexuality, for example, in the afterword of the manga she describes how Oscar's sex scene with Andre was perceived by her as sex, metaphorical sex between two men. Solaire the knight (talk) 17:43, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
.svg){kind=small}
